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Batteries habitation !!!

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Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sat 26 Sep 2015 - 11:23

Good morning all.....I hope you are all well...bright eyed and bushy tailed or something to that nature..
Batteries..!!!!!!
Well I just thought I would put some words on the forum about the battery or should I say batteries as it was two I required..
When I ordered on the new RAPIDO from the Paris show 4 years ago I asked for 2 x 110ah Banner energy 95751.....well it seems the ones fitted are are actually 100ah....but hey what the heck..2 x 100ah..(200ah) should be ok ..with a 120w solar panel

Well for the four years the 2 batteries have struggled...after one to two hours of battery use.TV..it would be down...so you think with all the electric items fitted to the RAPIDO ...that's maybe the norm..
or is it the solar not working...but no that chargers the battery back up.

So I decided to change the two Banner Batteries.

We live in France....and the 12v batteries are very expensive to say the least or at least a little more than the uk..

Plus the format...the technical information...takes a little of understanding..and try talking to a French person on a phone about technical stuff who does not understand or speak English who replies back with words so fast they sound like they are coming out of a machine gun!!!

What I wanted was 2 x 110ah ?? deep cycle batteries

Well it seems there is one battery the Motorhome dealers over here seem to use the Austrian Banner battery...they range../ for the 9575..1100ah 179.99 euros...but at some camping dealers they are on promo at 139.00 euros...but with the diesel to go there and back you may as well pay the 179.99 free delivery.

So we contacted our nearest camping car dealer (OPEL EVASION) 58 km away and yes they had some in (in France it is always best to check as they never stock they order) off we go Etaples / Le Touquet.....two Banner 100ah batteries fetched out of the back for us at a cost of just over 300 euros ....I said what / how long /combien d'années (how many years) is the guarantee....They said NONE ...0....WHAT !...after a bit of talking...they said they would give 1 year guarantee ...because we don't know what you are going to do with the batteries...CHARGE .. use...charge I said ????......so we said stuff them or words to that effect..and left ...so that was 116km about 8 ltr diesel for nothing....we said in the UK for the same battery...same number 95751 they give 4 years guarantee...he said the NO the owner not true ...ok awd luv look on the internet !!

So then I went for my second choice of battery POWER Battery...this is a well know battery over here in France in the Alsace<Strasbourg> region.
Free delivery
2 x 110ah
4 years guarantee
20ah more than the last ones
and Cheaper for 2 x 110 batteries 220 euros

4 years guarantee ...well that is always a worry...but is a very big company on the German border.. so you just hope, if you should ever need it..... and ..If the 2 x 110ah batteries last over a year that would better than the one year guarantee of the Banner battery guarantee that was on offer for the 2 x 100ah...plus I was not pleased with the last Banner batteries...

See what I mean about the different batteries over here and getting the correct ones ???? asking a French person on a phone !!!

There are camping car batteries
There are camping batteries
There are caravan batteries
There are marine batteries
There are voiture batteries...(these are car with cranking power)...
There are Camion Batteries
There are Tractor Batteries
There are batteries for either voiture or camping car
There are batteries that can be used for either cranking or camping/caravan ??
There batteries for invalid scooters
There batteries for golf buggies
There batteries fork trucks
There are AGM..Gel batteries
There are motor cycle and scooter batteries
There are Trojan batteries

and the list goes on
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 8:38

Mel, what a pain in the ass, the battery guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on and you will be hard pushed to get them replaced with it. On another forum I covered the subject of batteries having worked with them for 27 years in the Army ( Royal Signals ) and it's a very grey area in the MH world.
I bought 3 x 110amp from Battery mega store ( there is a branch in France ) for 59 quid each and they are great, but it's down to how you treat them. In your case I'm sure you do the correct things like making sure they are always on charge (trickle) while parked up (as you have solar this will happen none the less ) and never let them discharge below 50% of battery total (in your case 100amp of your 200amp) Once they go past 12.4 they are on the way to being damaged and do this often enough and they will die. Many people think running the engine for 15/20 minutes will sort the flat batteries, this is not the case and you need to run engine for 7/8 hours to fully charge the batteries.
Your 120watts of solar will "topup" your batteries giving around 6amps on a very sunny day, so unless you are in full sunshine every day for 5 hours that =30amps (but more like 20/25amps because the sun is never directly over panel all day). Then you are using the batteries all day and night is average MH draws around 20amps per day ( TV,DVD,water pump,charging phone and computer and other items all mounts up) 
Now you can see that after 2/3 days the 120watts can not keep up. 
I learnt this the hard way and now have 200watts (but would like 300watts) and with Spanish sun can run for days on end.
I think if you added another 80 watt panel you should have no problems.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 19:48

John I actually looked  the Battery Mega Store and the one I looked at was a battery named Titanium 110ah deep cycle at  €64.95 including vat and delivery...800cca (cold cranking amps) XV110R....which comes out at around £47.00 ...I thought it was just a little too cheap to be any good....so I looked elsewhere...Mmmmmm ...I Wished I had known sooner you had purchased from them.......I also looked at the Hancook DC31..at  100ah 119.95€ (£87.00) inc vat & delivery 2 year G at the megga store...Plus I had never heard of the Batterie mega store ?? but it is a lottery. John I can not add any more solar due to weight....

If these batteries don't work John I will get a peddle dynamo ....and loose some weight in the bargain..
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:22

Mel, bugger bugger bugger....... Those are the ones I have....... recommended by another member on another forum.
It is a mine field and I feel for you. The solar power you have up top will do the job as long as you remember that it will only top up and not charge the batteries unless you have a MPPT controller as many of these have a 3 stage charger build in. I think in your case it will be a basic controller and therefore watch you voltage and when it gets to 12.4volts it's time to charge them via engine or EHU. This way you will not damage the new batteries and they will last longer.
Dawn sends hugs and kiss to you both
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:41

Thanks John...love to Dawn from the both of us...we may see you in Portugal if you go....Mel



Last edited by heyupluv on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:42; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:41

Mel, Portugal is 50/50 right now will not know until very late November.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:43

John I don't go on other forums now only this one.....
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:44

Mel, noted.....
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:47

We are the same at the moment a bit un decided. ...but more 75/25 in favour ...if we go it will be two main campsites
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 8:45

John just a couple of questions...as you do know more about batteries than I do....
Plus I wish now I had purchased those cheaper Titanium 110ah from Battery Maga store !!!! knowing you had the same and they are fine...
I was always led to believe...NOT ALWAYS FACT or a 100% answer...but the more expensive the batteries usually meant a heavier a thicker and better quality lead plates...(meaning more lead...which in turn might entail thicker lead plates of better quality.....may hold there charge longer... ) but going on the 2 x 110ah Banner energy....that has certainly not been the case....hence me looking at the cheaper batteries...like I said it is a lottery...

Question 1/....a fully charged 12v battery is 12.7...to 12.75
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there are more internet links all stating 12.7...you may have to charge above 12.7 to fully charge a 12v battery but the resting voltage is 12.7...100% fully charged
also I have read the inbuilt charger on a motorhome will never charge / reach the desired 100% of a fully charged battery ??? so if that's the case say 90% or 95% battery charged
and you said never drop below 12.4v....it does not lead to much battery power left to use...?????

Question 2/...what is your theory on this question..

I have read on a couple internet links .on Battery maintainance on the up keep of a 12v battery..that it is best to leave your motorhome connected to the mains electric EHUP when not in use...this will keep your battery topped up as close to 100& as it is possible...due to regulators fitted on solar panels / motorhome chargers...this method should be fine. 
this will keep the battery as close to charged as any......me I would have un-hooked for a few days and then re-hooked the electric back up....
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 13:46

Mel, firstly:
Q. I was always led to believe...NOT ALWAYS FACT or a 100% answer...but the more expensive the batteries usually meant a heavier a thicker and better quality lead plates...
A. yes this is the case, however in a MH the extra money spent is not worth it as the abuse the average battery gets expensive or cheap they all die quickly.
Question ....a fully charged 12v battery is 12.7...to 12.75

A. Yes, however whilst being charged via solar can display 14.4 and when sun goes down voltage does to. In many cases after a charge a battery should be left for 30/60mins without anything being taken out so the battery can rest/settle then you will see state of charge 12.7 or more. 
Q...what is your theory on this question..

A. All batteries work better and last longer when charged via EHU or Solar ( providing you have enough solar to charge and not just top up. When MH is not in use it is always best to leave connect to EHU as providing your control panel is on it will check batteries every now and then and top up / charge them when needed, so when you go for a run out they are 100% fully charged. 

This is were many MH owners go wrong as they think it will be fine sitting in storage or out side house and the solar will do the job. It will if you have MPPT controller with 3 stage charging, but many MH do have this and have a basic controller that tops up batteries NOT charge them. 

If you want the link to the one I have fitted to show you whats out there I'm happy to show you.

In your case as the MH is in back of house I would leave it 24/7 on EHU and your batteries should last years.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 17:17

Mel, I found the chap I bought myMPPT controller from. Took about 10 days to arrive and 20 minutes to remove old one and fit new. This gets very last drop of solar from panel.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 17:40

John.. is this controller... just uncouple the one I have where the solar wires come in...(of basic one I have fitted) and refit the same cables to the new one...????
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 19:04

Mel, yes however you should cover the solar panel completely before removing wires and you should have an in line fuse on the +out of controller to the batteries. Is you current controller connected to the control panel or direct to the batteries?
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by KSH on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 19:46

heyupluv wrote:I was always led to believe...NOT ALWAYS FACT or a 100% answer...but the more expensive the batteries usually meant a heavier a thicker and better quality lead plates...(meaning more lead...which in turn might entail thicker lead plates of better quality
Or maybe just more profit for the retailer Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

This is worth a read Mel - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 19:57

Ken, whilst that link you have supplied is a good read, I do not agree and many others think the same about his report and findings. 
I have a B2B fitted as do many other MHer's and have never had a problem with the batteries being charged via it. 
This year I have been "off grid" for a total of 134 days using only solar sometimes parked up for 12 days without moving and using the B2B only when driving. I draw around 12amps average per night from 5pm until 11pm (TV,Sat,computer,wifi,charging phones,showers,lights) etc etc-
I should add that most of that was in the UK.......
As I stated to Mel it a bit of a black art and getting it right sometimes involves experimenting.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Tue 29 Sep 2015 - 6:15

Ken thanks for the link....I had already read it in my quest for info on the batteries while I was searching for mine...

John...about..."Is you current controller connected to the control panel or direct to the batteries?" ....I don't know as all this is hidden and was done by Rapido before before it came out of the factory.....I just ordered what I wanted/needed...going through Rapido named gear
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Tue 29 Sep 2015 - 8:28

Me, I have mine connected direct to batteries, but many are fitted via control panel because they split the charge to share between veh battery and hab battery. Nt sure about your veh so you would have to ask, but it is easy enough to wire direct.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 11:52

John...thanks for the info...I have saved it in my favourites and taken note of what you have said...for the future if needed
Sorry I did not get straight back to you because we have been away for 4 days to test the two batteries..(OFF GRID) (no Genny)...and what a difference....during the day the solar charging well and battery readings during the sunny periods from about 9.00am to 6.30pm rising up to 13.8 then around  14.00 at mid day and back to 13.8....then down to 12.7 for the first day in the evening and stayed there all evening using the TV, receiver, lighting,taps toilet flush ..and still the same the following morning the second day batteries read 12.8  in the evening but after 1 hour to 1.5 hours it dropped back to 12.7 and stayed there all evening and the same on the third day...so as it is doing what it should have done in the first place...but never has...I will leave well alone.....WAS one of the original banner batteries knackered from new from the word go..or..had somebody swapped a duff battery for one of our original battery when the van was in for so many times under warranty.???? who knows...and was the one battery that was working being pulled down by the duff battery...as the two heavy 100ah that was supposed to be 110ah in the first place like we ordered on the new motorhome ???...the two batteries are under the seats and very differcult to get at at... let alone lift out...so all you could do mainly was check fluid levels...with a voltmeter taking the two readings...
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 12:15

Mel, thats great news and so pleased for you both. I think as long as you keep MH on EHU whilst at home you should have batteries that last a few years. Enjoy
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 12:19

Hia

Going to jump on this thread with my little problem if I may


Iwill start at the beginning 
A very good place to start (song)

Please do not shout at me 

Went to Southern Ireland for the last 3 weeks , it was lovely with another motorhome
Half way through our travels my solar panel light turned red and when looking at the papers I had, it said that it was discharging the batteries.
R checked batteries and anything else and it was decided to disconnect the wires from the regulater. That didn't solve the problem.
I've ordered a new regulater as we were not sure about the old one.
We found on our travels that the batteries were not charging up when the engine was running 
The batteries lasted about 2days before going flat.
We did go on a couple of campsites with elec so I could get batteries charged up then they lasted for about 2 days.
I bought a trickle charger for time off campsites and connected up via elec leads to the other motorhome to put charge back in.

On my return I called at a local auto electrician and explained best I could. He said he couldn't help me with the habitat batteries but the fuse may have gone in the split charger.
He said to put charge in my habitat batteries first as then change the fuse if need be . If the fuse has not gone then he would check it out for me.
As I didn't have the van with me I later saw my mechanic to ask where I would find the fuse. He showed me and we had a look and the casing was burnt, so he sorted it with a new casing and gave me the fuse to put it when the habitat batteries had some charge in them.
Now last night hooked up on electric at home. This morning showing 13 1/2 amp on my little gauge in the van but nothing without elec hook up.
Would this be because the fuse is not in the split charger .

Now should I chance putting the fuse in the split charger and see if that is causing the none charging of habitat batteries while on electric hook up.
Ohhhh I am so confused 
Suppose will have to take it to a motorhome dealers to be sorted before going to buy new habitat batteries 
It's a Compass Advantgard 200 year 2005.
This must be serious I have even thrown in a couple of full stops and I think a commer 


Thanks
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 12:39

Don Quixote. wrote:Mel, thats great news and so pleased for you both. I think as long as you keep MH on EHU whilst at home you should have batteries that last a few years. Enjoy
Great ...let's hope so...John....
John.. we have just come back from the Calais port aire...been nice and sunny ..BUT windy
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 12:45

Polly wrote:Hia

Going to jump on this thread with my little problem if I may


Iwill start at the beginning 
A very good place to start (song)

Please do not shout at me 

Went to Southern Ireland for the last 3 weeks , it was lovely with another motorhome
Half way through our travels my solar panel light turned red and when looking at the papers I had, it said that it was discharging the batteries.
R checked batteries and anything else and it was decided to disconnect the wires from the regulater. That didn't solve the problem.
I've ordered a new regulater as we were not sure about the old one.
We found on our travels that the batteries were not charging up when the engine was running 
The batteries lasted about 2days before going flat.
We did go on a couple of campsites with elec so I could get batteries charged up then they lasted for about 2 days.
I bought a trickle charger for time off campsites and connected up via elec leads to the other motorhome to put charge back in.

On my return I called at a local auto electrician and explained best I could. He said he couldn't help me with the habitat batteries but the fuse may have gone in the split charger.
He said to put charge in my habitat batteries first as then change the fuse if need be . If the fuse has not gone then he would check it out for me.
As I didn't have the van with me I later saw my mechanic to ask where I would find the fuse. He showed me and we had a look and the casing was burnt, so he sorted it with a new casing and gave me the fuse to put it when the habitat batteries had some charge in them.
Now last night hooked up on electric at home. This morning showing 13 1/2 amp on my little gauge in the van but nothing without elec hook up.
Would this be because the fuse is not in the split charger .

Now should I chance putting the fuse in the split charger and see if that is causing the none charging of habitat batteries while on electric hook up.
Ohhhh I am so confused 
Suppose will have to take it to a motorhome dealers to be sorted before going to buy new habitat batteries 
It's a Compass Advantgard 200 year 2005.
This must be serious I have even thrown in a couple of full stops and I think a commer 


Thanks



Polly ....John (Don Quixote) is your man on batteries and regulators...not me...contact him if he has not not already answered you
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 12:46

Polly ....John (Don Quixote) is your man on batteries and regulators...not me...contact him if he has not not already answered you
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 13:08

Poly, I read your post on another forum. I cannot recommend a fix as without seeing your MH setup and how it's wired I would be guessing. I can only recommend that you go to a motorhome electrician as the chap that you spoke to does not sound like he knows what his is doing with MH electrics. It's no good him telling you over phone or whatever........  you need to take MH to a motorhome electrician.
Sorry cannot be of more help. Do not buy new batteries until this is fixed as you may not need new batteries........
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 13:24

Hia

Thanks

I have a chap coming out
He is mobile freedom Lesuire services and I used him for my habitat check this year 
He sorted my gas out 
So let's see what he says
Feel better now but let you know in a couple of hours
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 13:56

Hia

My chap as been taken my dead batteries to see if he can put life into them
Coming tomorrow with one of his and my hopefully fully charged batteries and go from there
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 13:56

Hia

Good job he's not away this weekend he's a Hyma owner
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 14:33

Polly wrote:Hia

My chap as been taken my dead batteries to see if he can put life into them
Coming tomorrow with one of his and my hopefully fully charged batteries and go from there
Poly, did he say what the problem was ?
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 16:08

Hia

No charging batteries up and I presume if they don't charge it's the batteries. But he is bringing his battery along to try and take it from there
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Fri 2 Oct 2015 - 19:38

Poly, fingers crossed then.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Sat 3 Oct 2015 - 16:38

Hia

Carl came today and through a process of illimanation and changing blown fuses sounds as though the regulater wasn't regulating 
So now waiting for the arrival of new regulater and he will fit it for me.
Will let me know tomorrow state of my batteries, but he can get them cheaper than my quote so that doesn't sound to bad if I need them 
Happy bunny
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by heyupluv on Sat 3 Oct 2015 - 19:39

Good luck Polly... hope all goes well....and the cost is small and minimal.......

Mel
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Don Quixote. on Sat 3 Oct 2015 - 22:01

Poly, please do NOT get batteries from him before checking at this place: http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/
They will deliver and give good warranty and are the best priced in UK.
You can buy them and your chap can fit them.
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Re: Batteries habitation !!!

Post by Polly on Sun 4 Oct 2015 - 9:40

Hia

Taken note THANKS
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