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 Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home

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mike 100

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PostSubject: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:27

have not got the word to say any thing but thought
 some would like to see not much left of any thing   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:41

Have you read the comments? RAC getting a lot of bad publicity over this

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mike 100

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:48

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Have you read the comments? RAC getting a lot of bad publicity over this
yes but did wont to say to much
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whistlinggypsy

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:48

RAC should be totally accountable for this accident, it would not have happened if they had recovered the m/h to a safe place, the attendant had no recourse to refuse them assistance as all the animals were being carried in a safe and secure enviroment and posed no threat whatsoever to the recovery person.

SHAME ON YOU RAC.
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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:57

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
RAC should be totally accountable for this accident, it would not have happened if they had recovered the m/h to a safe place, the attendant had no recourse to refuse them assistance as all the animals were being carried in a safe and secure enviroment and posed no threat whatsoever to the recovery person.

SHAME ON YOU RAC.
Not sure about blaming the attendant Bob, don't know what the RAC policy is regarding animals, maybe he was sticking to the company policy, then its RAC to blame not the attendant

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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 12:57

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Wat did rac not do then
Wouldn't recover the vehicle because it had 12 dogs in it, but they were all caged up

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:06

Then the RAC had an obligation to have them removed by any source available including the police, a police range rover would have, could have moved the m/h to a place of safety immediately then arranged for a recovery from whoever would do it.

Don't females/children get priority from the emergency/recovery people on motorways, whatever way you look at this Ken SAFTEY must and should always be uppermost in these situations NOT policy.
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mike 100

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:21

wonder if they where over loaded
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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:27

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Then the RAC had an obligation to have them removed by any source available including the police, a police range rover would have, could have moved the m/h to a place of safety immediately then arranged for a recovery from whoever would do it.

Don't females/children get priority from the emergency/recovery people on motorways, whatever way you look at this Ken SAFTEY must and should always be uppermost in these situations NOT policy.
Yeah I agree, but that's not up to the attendant.
I'm sure he's feeling pretty bad about this already, but if he was doing what he's company tells him too then we can't be blaming him. Personally I wouldn't have even seen the dogs in the van Cool 

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:47

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Then the RAC had an obligation to have them removed by any source available including the police, a police range rover would have, could have moved the m/h to a place of safety immediately then arranged for a recovery from whoever would do it.

Don't females/children get priority from the emergency/recovery people on motorways, whatever way you look at this Ken SAFTEY must and should always be uppermost in these situations NOT policy.
Yeah I agree, but that's not up to the attendant.
I'm sure he's feeling pretty bad about this already, but if he was doing what he's company tells him too then we can't be blaming him. Personally I wouldn't have even seen the dogs in the van Cool 
This has been widely covered on other forums and the RAC policy is quoted as 'it is up to the attendant whether to take the dogs or not'.
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whistlinggypsy

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:51

If had been suspected of being overloaded the RAC would have reported them to the police and they would have been recovered by the police and then taken the m/h to a weighbridge for examination and weighing.

In the circumstance where life is in danger the safety of the occupants and the general public must be paramount, any other issues can be addressed when the vehicle is in a safe environment.  

What would have been said if one of those loose dogs had caused a major incident involving the deaths of innocent travellers using the m/way.

I will give you indication of what the police did to me many years ago.

I was broken down and on the hard shoulder of the M1 one hundred yards from Milton Keynes services, and was carrying 24 tons of highly flammable liquid in 45 gallon drums on a flatbed trailer, all safely secured on the trailer with markers for hazardous load. 

I put my hazards on and a warning triangle out and walked to the services to inform the police as it was quicker than walking to the emergency phone (no mobiles them days), I told them the situation and then got a right b****cking off the police for abandoning my vehicle.

Well I sat there in the cab for 3hrs and nobody came near me and I was crapping myself because if someone had rear ended me it would have blown anyone passing into kingdom come including me.

It was now getting dark and I was really scared so I walked to the emergency phone (which was further than the services) and asked for the fire brigade to attend, they had not even been informed I was there and within 8 minutes I was surrounded by fire engines lights ablaze, lanes closed and breakdown truck appeared pronto. 

Within minutes I was towed to a secured area in the services, surrounded by barriers while my problem was sorted, felt like going to the police and giving them what they gave me. Policy what policy there is far too much "elf n safety" nowadays and nobody uses common sense anymore.
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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeSun 24 Nov 2013 - 13:55

If that's the case then yeah, he should have transported them

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Chameleon

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 18:18

From someone with experience of the recovery industry and the RAC I will stick to facts.

Therefore not saying whether the Police, Highways Agency or the contracted recovery operator was at fault.

Motorways locally are camered and would believe the M40 would be also. The Police,in this case, should have been aware the motorhome was parked/broken down roadside.  Don't believe in the  three hours of the incident that a Police car or Highways patrol had not been past the scene.

The law states that a vehicle is only allowed to be parked at the side of a motorway during the hours of darkness, for two hours then the Police can use their powers and have a Police approved recovery operator to remove the vehicle.  Usually to the recovery operators premises.

The first recovery operator may have refused to recover the motorhome because [and from experience] the vehicle will have been passed as a small Fiat van.  The operator will have attended to find not a small Fiat van but a longer larger motorhome.  Loaded with 12dogs the motorhome could also have been overweight for his truck. The operator would not have been able to load the motorhome with out scraping the rear overhang on the road.

Some have said why wasn't the motorhome moved by Police Range Rover - consider a soft tow with an inexperienced driver, who had not been towed before, behind the disabled vehicles wheel.  We wouldn't do it. But then it depends on the breakdown symptoms as to whether the vehicle could be driven to a place of safety.

But if the vehicle had been passed out by the recovery club  as a motorhome with 12dogs we would have left the dogs in the motorhome, with the owner signing a disclaimer, and recovered the vehicle to the destination with the people in the recovery truck.  No different to the recovery of horseboxes with horses onboard. 

Recovery operators are covered by specialist insurance and one of the clauses in our insurance is no dogs etc in the recovery vehicle cab.

It is now illegal to give females priority since Sheila's Wheels were taken to court, by a man, for being sexist only insuring female drivers.
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whistlinggypsy

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 18:51

Quote :
From someone with experience of the recovery industry and the RAC I will stick to facts.
Hi Joyce, a very eloquent and informed post by an expert in the recovery industry and I can see that all the points of law and logic are relevant but as you say the authorities must have known the vehicle was there and for the length of time it was in that extremely dangerous position.

My point is not one of a legal or duty position but one of common sense, it was a disaster waiting to happen and it did, fortunately with no severe casualties (notwithstanding the death of several dogs) but things could have turned into a major traffic incident with great loss of human life but for the grace of whomever or luck with several dogs running amok on the carriageway, it doesn't bear thinking about that on one of the busiest motorways in the UK someone can be abandoned for 3 hrs while others debate the rights and wrongs of a swift and safe recovery. Pure craziness.
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Chameleon

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 19:12

Unfortunately the people debating whether they should do the recovery or not are sat in nice warm offices and probably do not drive a car. 

An operator we know took on new office staff and took them outside the building and left them for half and hour before he went back for them.  They didn't like the wait but it taught them what it was like for broken down drivers to wait for attendance.

 When you broke down Bob you phoned the Police, although you didn't get much response. 

I would have thought one of the three women would have phoned 999. Especially as they were in a very dark location.

I think there is more to this incident than has been reported.

Time will tell.
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Chameleon

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PostSubject: From one of the ladies from another forum. Delete if not allowed   Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 19:22

I am unable to read the posts as my situation is still too fragile.. But I feel the need to clarify some facts as I am one of the three ladies ... The dogs were all secured in custom made steel and or fibreglass crates that were custom made to fit our rig. The dogs were running down the motorway after our vehicle was hit and obliterated .
We have such a large rig because we take our entire family of dogs with us whenever we are off on a weekend jaunt.
We do not breed or show as a profession we have each been in dogs our entire lives.
The RAC was informed the dogs were in crates
The Motorhome had what I believe was a clutch/gearbox failure as it was still revving but no gears engaged.
We did get out but ad the temps were brutal we were forced back in to get warm
At all times we had all sidelights and flashers on
Repeated pleas were made to the RAC but they said they were having a hard time because the contractors were refusing to come
At no time did we ask if even one dog would be allowed in a recovery truck
Our dogs are our life and our kids - we did the best we could for them... Quite honestly evenif we had been sitting on the bank with the distance the chassis and debris was thrown we could have all been even more seriously injured, and I would never have been able recover witnessing my dogs being crushed.
Sincerely
Lisa Croft-Elliott
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KSH

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 19:28

I've edited the post Joyce, it was in a table and not all the text was visible

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PostSubject: Re: Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home    Lorry ploughs into broken down motor-home  I_icon_minitimeMon 25 Nov 2013 - 19:32

Thank you Ken was wondering about that scratch
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